Mixing Sr. 4-Stroke with Open

[wilsondolan]

Hey everybody,

After the last race an issue has seemed to present itself. Some racers are unhappy with the current situation of mixing open with the Sr. 4-Strokes. Some of the problems have been:

The Sr. 4-Stroke Class was never formally asked if or how the Opens would be mixed with our class

Open racers are having an affect on the outcome of Sr. 4-Stroke racers results (either positively or negatively)

Open racers are catching and lapping some of the Sr. 4 Stroke racers who wouldn't be lapped otherwise, which leads to less racing racing for these people

What would the racers like to see to resolve these problems?

The easiest solution would seem to be running the open class separately from us, however this would be discouraging to open members seeking to race with a decent sized grids, and thats not good for our club.

So we need to find a solution that doesn't discourage members of the open class to race, but doesn't have a negative affect on the members of the main class.

Please keep all responses POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE

Best regards,

[phil]

I think looking at the last race weekend for any indication of where to run the open class would not show much other than on days when the track conditions are not good, the difference is greater. Alan qualified 0.3 seconds slower in minimax than pole in Rotax masters. There was a great differential in ALL classes, & lapping that would not normally happen. Looking back to the previous weekend, there was not a large difference in lap times from the open to the Sr 4.

The open classes have always ran with the class that fits closest to their speed, this is not new, & was discussed in your jan meeting, the AGM, & posts on the forum ( jan 22, Feb 11). The EDKRA outlaws are actually closer to the 206 than the clones, or the Hondas. I think mostly what we are experiencing is very large grids, which has the class covering a lot of the track, therefore making the backmarkers that much closer to being lapped.

I think it is great for our club to have others coming here to race with us, & would like to see more of our members go there as well. Also I have been hearing rumors they are warming up to the idea of the 206 (could just be a viscious rumor).

If & when I get the chance to come & play in this class, I am sure I will be one of the ones at the back being lapped, & would simply look at it as more incentive to improve, as well as a guage on my improvement.

These are mearly my opinions, & not at all related to any executive thinking.

Phil

[phil]

I would also like to thank all who have helped to make this class the fastest growing class in the club, with excellent racing, & sportsmanship

Phil

[retroracer]

Wilson,

I totally agree with Phil. Open karts should be run in the class which most closely matches their relative speed - in this case: Sr. 4-Stroke.

True, they lap fast enough to catch up to the slower Sr. 4's sometimes, however when you look at this from another angle - i.e. that I was 3+ seconds slower than the other LO206's last weekend, someone could make a case for putting me in with the Junior 1's or 2's

I think they're fine where they are provided they don't start lapping at Rotax speeds, however I did witness a couple of maneuvres that could have affected everyone else in a bad way. But that is a function of poor driver judgement as opposed to kart speed and should be dealt with with the person/people involved. If not, it will carry over to whichever class those drivers are placed in anyway.

[phil]

Just curious how the flagging was for the people being lapped - was the blue flag used? I know we were short of volunteers this weekend, & had a bunch of new people step forward (thanks to those who did). I was unable to watch any of the races, as I was looking after five karts. If the blue was not waved, that is another topic to deal with seperately. I am positive we can make progress on the surrounding issues to help make everyone as comfortable as possible within the current structure, we just need to understand the whole picture.

Phil

[fastfood]

Willy in response to you posting.

For the past 4 years we have had issues in the 4 stroke class with fuel and engines and have made change annually, which I have gone along with but I must admit it has been very frustrating and somewhat expensive, and I want to see some stability. For the 2011 season club members wanting to race 4 stroke were 'encourged' to go for one engine and in 2012 they were directed that to be in the class the Lo206 engine would be exclusive for the class, judging by the response it was a good and correct move.This year with the exclusive the Lo206 we have a level playing field, probably for the first time in 4 years.

I have found there has been quite a bit of frutration this year racing with clones, especially the past sunday. I think we need to ask why do we join the club and race, the answer i believe is for FUN. Given that, does including an open class racing with 4 stroke impair that objective. My answer is, it is definately not as much fun just now.

As a driver that was lapped (I think) i'm definately not happy, and it will be even worse if we do format B.

I believe we should look at what is best for the health of the club and support the members who particiapte in the events, my feeling is that most of the drivers would rather just race the Lo206 and no open class. It seems the objective of grownig the senior 4 stroke and allowing open seem to be at cross purposes. Do we risk member dissatisfaction, and what will be the result of that.

I do not understand why we have an open class, and if I were to make a recommendation it would be that the CKRC does not allow an open class, there are quicker options and there are less expensive options that can provide the driver with competative racing.

I believe we should welcome out of towners who could be made aware of our classes and race accordingly in the spirit of fair play, but more importantly we should be eqaully respectful to the CKRC membership.

Vince

[John Kwong]

I think when combining classes, the class in the minority should not be the faster of the combination. Under this set-up the EDKRA Outlaw motors are upsetting the racing of the established 4-cycle class. The EDKRA Outlaw motors are considered to be in the open class and are not running for the same points but are influencing the results of the 4-cycle class either by being in the mix or by lapping. To alleviate this, perhaps these "Opens" could run with the Rotax Masters.

Yes, you can mix 2 cycle and 4 cycle karts together. We did it at Kart Gardens back in the day with the fledgling 100cc Reed/Rotary class and raced together with Briggs Blue Wazoom motors and Tecumseh Warrior motors. Yes, there was lapping but there was only 7 karts on the track at the time not 20+.

We have worked hard and waited a long time to get the 4-cycle class where it is now and this circumstance was hardly forseen.

John K

[wilsondolan]

To add to the point John and Vince are making, the current status quo of the Open class being placed with Sr. 4-Stroke is a little dated. When it started it was when there was one TKM running with what was then a very small Sr. 4-Stroke grid. As of right now Sr. 4 Stroke is the largest grid in the club, and continuing to grow. The reason we are growing is we have a level playing field, with a spec engine for the first time in my years at this club. We shouldn't discourage the Sr. 4-Stroke racers who have spent money to achieve the level playing field by allowing a small number of open karts to have stronger engines changing the outcome of the race. Things like that are what almost killed the Sr. 4-Stroke class in years past.

This season we have had races where the Shifters have run 2 and 3 karts on their own grid, with no question of placing them with either of the Sr Rotax classes. If we can do this, 2 or 3 open karts can run on their own grid. (I know this is contradictory to my first post)

If the club isn't willing to run the opens on their own grid, I fear it may have negative affects on people who have been dedicated to growing Sr. 4 Stroke into the biggest and funnest grid at the CKRC.

Best regards,

[CKRCAdmin]

This has been a problem for a long time. We shouldn't have an open class or a shifter class in our club -there simply aren't enough entrants to warrant it. I fail to see why we keep trying to be all things to everyone. If you go to a Chinese restaurant, you shouldn't expect to be able to order a hamburger; so why should we have to offer a class for someone who shows up with equipment that doesn't fit our club ?

Doesn't make sense.

[wilsondolan]

Before this gets into something ugly let me say this..

I have absolutely no problem with our club having an open class. The more memberships and race day fees we sell the better the future of the club is. BUT when we start upsetting a large number of racers in the biggest class our club by mixing open with them that isn't good for our club. If we are going to continue running our open class, we have to run it as a stand alone class as it was originally intended, because as it stands its just not working. What is the worst thing that happens by running open separately? Our race day is a little bit longer. If the members of our open class are seeking a large grid, the LO206 has proven to be a cost effective way to satisfy this craving.

I don't think if anyone showed up at our track with a Rok they would expect to run with Rotax guys, why is it any different for us?

Once again I can't stress enough that this is nothing personal against any open racers, it is simply thinking what is best for our own class.

Best regards,